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8:53AM Sunday 05 July, 2009

Backyard pool anger

Backyard pool anger

Eleven-year-old Tom Chambers is all hot and bothered with nowhere to cool off after the council forced his family to empty their pool. Photo: Brett Wortman /180205

A Bli Bli father is outraged after being told he must pay a $460 building permit fee and have an architect draw up plans each time he erects a backyard pool for his kids.

Stephen Chambers said council officers turned up at his home on Christmas Eve and told him to dismantle the pool, which is five metres in diameter and 90cm high.

"A fencing permit I can understand but the building permit is ridiculous," he said.

"They tell me that because it holds so much water it does not class as a portable pool.

"They said it would cost me $3000 to $4000 to legally put up the $300 pool.

"It's just madness what they would put us through.

"We've had a pool out the back for nearly 10 years.

"We've had this one for three years. I put it up in summer and pull it down for winter."

Mr Chambers said his yard was fenced so no children could get in and his own children were 11 and 13 "so it's not like babies are running around".

"I went out on Christmas Eve and spent $200 on temporary pool fencing but that still wasn't acceptable because I didn't have a building permit.

"I know you've got to have rules but where does it stop? It's out of control."

Mr Chambers said council officers, who would return tomorrow to see if he had complied by pulling the pool down, had told him they would fine him $550 if he had not complied.

He said he questioned one of the officers about the Kings Beach ocean pool without success.

"He's been warning people that they need a building permit but Kings Beach doesn't need a fence," he said.

"He reckons their rules are different."

Mr Chambers said he was now considering putting an in ground swimming pool in his backyard because it would probably work out cheaper than the portable pool he puts up for his kids each summer.

A council spokesperson said the State Government’s pool laws applied to not only the traditional backyard pool but also many of the smaller pools that are popular purchases at this time of year.

"Council officers are required to enforce State Legislation and they are encouraging people to make sure they are aware of the laws – and how important it is that the appropriate safety measures are in place,'' a statement from the council said.

"Under the State’s legislation, the only pools that do not require pool fencing are portable wading pools that cannot be filled to a depth of more than 450mm and have a volume no more than 2,000 litres and have no filtration system.

"People buying a pool are advised to check whether they need fencing or a permit for the pool itself. Further information is available from Council’s Customer Service Centre on 5475 7272 or at www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au.''

Recent Comments

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on 5 January, 2009 at 7:09 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
We need rules.

But this seems a bit silly. Can we get another side to this story - or is it just as it appears?
on 5 January, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
My son was pulled out of a pool blue and lifeless! Please consider that rules are here for a very good reason! We have already had 2 drownings in Qld in 2009! We need to stop these tragedies! I think Sunshine Coast council does a wonderful job!
on 5 January, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I think it is just revenue raising practices in place here. It is sold as a portable pool in the stores, I understand fencing guidelines and do believe that a fence is needed around any type of pool regardless of the age of your children. But to say that he needs a building permit is absolutely absurd!
on 5 January, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
There is an awful lot of water in that pool. If the side of the pool collapses where will the water go?....into the owners house, or a neighbours? I'm certain it would cause a lot of damage.
on 5 January, 2009 at 1:29 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Iagree with Gumby fromLittle Mountain a Building
Permit are the council for real pool. Fences do nothing to save a child from drowning they are no different to a Safety Fence at a Child Care Centre where children can climb over one of them and on to the car park or road. It just gets back to the parents to teach their child to swim and be careful
Both my young children learnt to swim how on earth are the council going to find out every person who has a pool like the Bli Bli Family Come on its absurd
on 5 January, 2009 at 2:44 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It was testified in our recent coronial inquest for our daughters death that council permits in QLD for pools have been a requirement under the Building Act since 1976 so this LEGISLATION IS NOTHING NEW.

The previous owner builder DIDNT have a permit for the pool he built, nor the deck, the shed or the extension bedrooms nor the BSA license he was required to have and these structures or part there of were illegal in height and also contributed to our daughters death. The coroner said so. The coroner also said in her recommendations as have others in the past recommended that council enforce the laws and not be soft with it. The council is doing just this and the Sunshine Coast COuncil is the best at it!

The enforcement of this law has my full support and that of many in the Water Safety Industry. This father is only cranky with council because he was caught. So be it, Pay the necessary building fees just like the rest of the normal people out there doing the right thing and save lives. A proper pool fence WILL save lives and I dont wish living with the guilt of having a child die in your pool on anyone.

A portable pool is one that does not hold 1000 litres of water and that pool is NOT portable despite what it says on the box.

All pools sold in this country should be sold with notifications to CHECK WITH COUNCIL you wont find these notices on Overseas made pools and those imported.

if your children are hot take them to the council run pool but dont forget to supervise them because the life guards are not babysitters either.

Your pool doesnt have the CPR sign up either so I suggest you become qualified in it and have the sign up for those that dont know just in case. THIS CAN AND WILL HAPPEN To those who least expect it.
on 5 January, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Not another suggestion that a sign (not actually shown in the picture) will have some kind of magical value.

It is regretable that KatPlint not only lost a child but had to experience a coronial as well.

Supervision of the former will obviate the need for the latter.
on 5 January, 2009 at 4:13 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Always one to think outside the square... Why can't the laws regarding pools be relevant to the size and just how permanent it is... EG if its an inground you pay the full fee and then depending on the size and complexity of putting the pool up then the fees decrease... Really needs to be some sort of balance here....I think that council are doing an awesome job but are bound by antiquated laws....
on 5 January, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The sign is compulsory Mr Auditor. Yes Supervision is the greatest prevention I have never said it wasnt but this person has breeched council laws and state legislation so I dont understand what his problem is. Its been law since 1976 so whats his gripe? that the pool is $x amount and the fees are $xx amount?? what price do you put on a childs life???

The council is only doing their job yet if a child drowns in this pool we will be asking WHY?

Damned if you do, damn if you dont it seems.
on 5 January, 2009 at 5:08 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
But once more we go back to the pond the council cleaned up the other week, dug it out, so it was a lot deeper, then put a footpath right across the middle of it, with no handrails.

Also, the canal blocks, you not only have to have the swimming pool fenced off from the house, but also the canal, someone can swim to your jetty, fall off and drown and it is unfortunate..if they fall in your pool and drown after swimming to your jetty, you are accountable..

KatPlint, I would not wish what you went through on anyone, but, there has to be some sense to these rules, and also if the council were that worried, they only have to have a look in any real estate magazine, and see the adverts for houses with pools there, and I would guess that 75% of the older places do not have fenced pools.
on 5 January, 2009 at 5:15 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Dave R that is why two coroners has recommended Compulsory inspections for pools being sold with houses. We need to change the legislation to do so.

Hannahs Foundation reports pools being sold online it is very well received in Victoria Shire Council and afew in QLD. All other states but QLD, NSW and VIC DO have the legislation that states that houses are not to be sold without pool compliance.

for such an old law with permits being 1976 and pool laws since 1991 its really not that hard councils just need the recources and the public need to be educate on what is the law and what isnt because like Most Mr Chambers they dont have a clue and then get narky when told its wrong.

you need a building permit for plumbing, building a shed, a house and a pool whats the gripe bout again.. its all about the $$$ and the fact that his kids can swim. Kids who swim drown too just ask the parents of a 6, 8, 12 and 18 year old who drowned in recent months.

I wish i had of known what i know now Id still have my daughter.
on 5 January, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I live in Noosa and have had 2 pool inspections within the past 6 years as part of the old Noosa Council inpsection program. The best part of these inspections is that they are "free" as we pay a swimming pool levy. I think a lot of people were upset about Anna Bligh's proposal of an annual inspection costing $300. I would be upset too since my pool meets the requirments and it is 14 years old.
Under the current regulations, if you have followed them correcty, then you have minimised the chances of an accident happening. The problem is that kids will find a way and as a parent you need to watch for these. If you have young children then install pool/gate alarms, motion sensors etc. They are available.

As for the guy with the portable pool. It is still a pool and subject to the same regs as for the rest of us.
on 5 January, 2009 at 6:17 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I smashed my above ground pool out of the ground a week before christmas eve. Looking at the liability point of view, parents inabillity to take responsibility for their own children, and the constant haunt of democracy going mad all makes it impossible to have a pool in your yard.
on 5 January, 2009 at 6:55 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If you can't afford to install a pool properly or are renting, then spend less than $5 and go to any of the well equipped and often poorly patroised public pools on the coast or have a bath.
on 5 January, 2009 at 7:24 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Sun_Coaster - a lot of responsible pool owners apparently were upset, but the Premier made no such proposal - see www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/dec/15/aap...
on 5 January, 2009 at 9:54 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
What a NANNY STATE! Unbelievable!

What next?
Perhaps there should be a fence erected around our beaches too? The sea is just too dangerous ....

And how ironic is this council - people can have dams in their gardens unfenced - but pools are deemed unsafe.

Queenslanders ... believe me ....

Curtains do not fade because of daylight saving ...

Roundabouts do not have an implicit stop sign on each entry ....

AND YES - there is a left lane on a two lane highway - USE IT!!!!
on 5 January, 2009 at 10:36 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Looks like a dodgy pool.
on 6 January, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Local_Bloke from Marcoola - $3.50 a visit per person, say you have 2 kids and an adult to SUPERVISE them, if the pool is in the backyard they can swim every day but for argument sake lets say they only swim four or five times a week, and solar heating is very inexpensive and makes a backyard pool swimmable all year but lets say they only go for six months. Add in transport costs bla bla bla. You work it out.

And then those who would like to use the privacy of their backyard to maybe go skinny dipping now and then seeing as though there is such a protest about clothing optional beaches. Or maybe those who would like to cool down at 11:30 at night just before bed... The list goes on.

And can someone publish some statistics that show what percentage of these tragic child pool deaths occurred in above ground pools, and with it what is the ratio of above ground pools to in-ground pools? And by above ground I mean truly ABOVE the ground - not set into the ground with a deck around it. I believe that would be a more telling statistic seeing as though all these recent stories like this one are targeting those with temporary above ground pools.

Legislation will NEVER stop this issue. It won't even improve it. Look at all the other areas they have "tightened" legislation - road rules, drinking, sex - you name it - anywhere legislation is expected to fix a problem it does nothing but worsen the problem, because people take even less RESPONSIBILITY for themselves and their kids. If you don't believe that do some research - it isn't hard - check the statistics for countries that don't have rules are stringent as ours in any of these areas.

Discipline is the only fix for this, but sadly we have legislation about that too now...
on 6 January, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Mrhasbeen, I have worked it out. You can get a season family pass for 6 months for $434. That is about how much I spend on maintenance alone on my pool. Not sure how you can get around teh skinny dipping penchant though.
on 6 January, 2009 at 6:40 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Local_Bloke that must be a nice big pool you have there, but if we take Mr Chambers' case where his pool cost around $300 and $200 for the fence, and based on its volume would cost maximum $150 each summer for maintenance he's miles ahead after the second year if he'd have to pay $434 for a six month pass, even if we ignore the skinny dipping and night swimming.

So I reiterate my question from before. How many of the deaths that have occurred have been in above-ground pools that would require a building permit and fence, and what is the ratio of these types of pools to in-ground pools? I ask this question because all of these reports over the past few weeks have targeted this type of pool, yet I know of numerous unfenced or incorrectly fenced in-ground pools around the Coast and I'm sure if I spent half an hour on Google Earth I could find many more. Where are the reports of council knocking on those doors and ordering those pools drained? Or maybe they are just in more affluent areas that the council hasn't had time to get to yet...

Then there is the issue of architects plans and a building permit to put up a temporary above-ground pool! Come on. What next? I have a three room tent. If my kids want to have a variety of mates over at different times for a few weeks over the holidays will I need architects plans, a building permit, sewerage and a posted fire escape plan with lit fire exits before I can put it up because it will be inhabited on my property?

Coroners findings that this was to blame or that wasn't right or this thing wasn't working properly and therefore the child fell in the pool and drowned does not change the reality of these tragic deaths. Bottom line - if there was supervision there wouldn't have been a death. That may sound callous but it is the sad truth. Trying to shift the blame to other areas is just another sad sign of buck passing.
on 6 January, 2009 at 7:57 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
amorris...hate to burst your bubble on Queensland drivers, but New South Wales has a comparable road fatality rate taking in to consideration the population difference. So it appears New South Wales drivers aren't so terrific either.
on 7 January, 2009 at 12:36 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
why is an architect drawing up plans for a pool?

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